Religious Admissions of Failure

religious-facepalmI really get sick and tired of this kind of thing, but it is the final wheezes of a failed position.  How many theists have said to you, after going through a long debate where they have never been able to back up a single thing except through professions of faith, that they’re going to ignore everything you’ve said to them and just take their particular religious position anyhow. Why are so many theists entirely unable to admit failure?

I just had that happen again, a theist went into a debate full of proclamations that they could prove their religion correct and after I’d gotten done shaking it around like a rag doll, spilling it’s contents all over the forum for everyone to see, he simply declared that he was going to believe what he believed and there wasn’t anything I could do about it, then he threw in that little “fuck you” at the end, that he was going to heaven and I was going somewhere else.

This is really why I don’t get into heavy debates much anymore, I know it’s ultimately a waste of time and even when shown to be completely wrong, the theists aren’t honest enough to admit defeat, they just go back to bobbing on the Jesus knob as though nobody had ever said anything to challenge their faith in the first place.  You might think that this is only a problem with fundamentalists, but you’d be wrong.  In fact, I’ve found it to be even a bigger problem with some of the ultra-liberal Christians because they won’t even stand still long enough to get a bead on.

I had a recent discussion with a “progressive” Christian (I guess even he is ashamed of the liberal label) who assured me that there was no discovery that could possibly be made that would change his faith because he didn’t actually care about anything in the Bible, he didn’t care if Jesus existed and he didn’t care if God was real.  He was a follower of the teachings of Jesus, not the person of Jesus.  If Jesus turned out to be a complete myth, so what?  The writings in the Bible attributed to Jesus were still there and nothing else mattered.  Thus, so long as the Bible existed, his faith was secure.  He even argued in favor of picking and choosing what parts of the scriptures he wanted to believe because he wasn’t after salvation, he wasn’t after eternal life, he just wanted to feel good.  When I pointed out that virtually no Christian on the planet would consider him a Christian, he shrugged, said they were all wrong and didn’t care what they thought.

I don’t have a particular problem with that, after all, I know of a couple of secular Buddhists who ignore any of the supernatural crap in Buddhism, they just read the writings of Gautama Buddha and get something out of it.  However, this guy, even though he says he doesn’t care about God or Jesus, still believes in God and Jesus.  He says he’s not doing it for eternal salvation, but he still believes it exists.  If I didn’t know better, I’d say this guy was a troll, but he’s a really consistent troll if so.  He’s also hardly the only one I’ve ever had that told me that.

So what’s the point in having these debates if theists are so utterly dishonest that they cannot acknowledge that they’ve lost, or that any of their blind faith claims are wrong?  Don’t give me that “you’re doing it for the audience” crap.  It seems that on the forum I’m on, either everyone is already an atheist or they are the “I’m never changing my mind” crowd.  This is becoming the norm in discussions and debates everywhere.  What’s the point?

3 thoughts on “Religious Admissions of Failure”

  1. "…(I guess even he is ashamed of the liberal label)…"

    It never ceases to amaze me that you so often assume things that could so easily be determined to be true or false by simply asking. A simple, "Why do you not use the label liberal in describing yourself? would have obviated the need for you to guess on this issue.

    "So what’s the point in having these debates…"

    The answer that most likely applies to you is because you like to have an excuse to drone on about how dishonest christians are. You've made this same point so many times in past posts that it is getting a bit boorish. If you really think there is no point to having these debates then stop debating christians and then you can stop repeating yourself in these posts.

  2. This debate sounds about right. I had the same thing recently but maybe to a worse degree. The person admitted that the Bible was flawed, then in the next sense said it was perfect. When called out on this simple fact, the person disagreed they ever said it. They still disagreed even after I showed them the quote.

    I really think nowdays we are arguing more against the fanatics. Unfortunatelly the fanatics are in a way a justification for the "normal" believers? As such to get rid of the insitutition, we need to get the fanatics to see the error of their ways. Or make them look so bad that the church populations dwindle more than they already are.
    My recent post Predatory Science Journals

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