Payday Loans and Liberal Irrationality

Payday-LoansI know I have to speak very, very, very slowly for the liberals, they don’t actually understand reality well, as comes up a lot in discussions.  This time out, I had a liberal who was complaining that payday loans are horrible for the poor and need to be stopped, especially because they charge over 300% interest.

Except they don’t.  What’s really at play here are people playing number games and others who are gullible enough to believe them.  None of these idiots knows what’s really going on, nor, I suspect, do they care.  It’s just part of the absurd liberal mission to save people from their own stupidity, all the while hurting people in the process.

So how do I know any of this?  A long time ago, I helped a friend of a friend set up one of these payday loan/check cashing franchises, in fact, I was in his store on 9/11, listening to it on the radio.  Before anyone tells me I don’t know what I’m talking about, I invite them to eat shit and die.

What is a payday loan?  Let’s do some history.  Long, long ago, banks used to do low-value, high-interest, no-collateral loans to people but the risk was absurdly high, most never got paid back and the banks stopped doing it because it was a losing proposition. However, just because the banks stopped doing it, that doesn’t mean that the need for the service went away, there were still tons of people who had no credit, no collateral, who wanted money to make it to their next paycheck.  Where there is a desire, there will be a supplier.  That’s how capitalism works.

The whole idea is that someone comes into the store and borrows some money, at what was 15% interest, for no more than 2 weeks, whenever they get their next paycheck.  They leave a check for the full amount plus interest, then they come back, repay the amount of the check and get their check back.  If they don’t return, the store owner deposits their check. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The problem for the store owner is that most of these people are unreliable.  Gee, you don’t say!  Their checks bounce. They run. They hide. They lie.  A certain percentage are there just to scam the store, they have fraudulent phone numbers for their references, jobs and landlords and that’s only been made easier with the modern reliance on cell phones.  They’ll write a check on an account which can be verified, then close the account and off they go with a couple hundred dollars of easy money.

That kind of unreliability makes such customers massive risks.  Store owners do everything in their power to do their due diligence and verify information, but a sizeable number of loans default and run away and need to be hunted down, sued and collected upon at significant cost.  It’s not a business model for the faint of heart.

Okay, that understood, where is the problem?  The liberal asshats are claiming, entirely wrongly, that these industries are charging 300% interest in fees, which is a complete and total lie and an absolute distortion of the facts.  They base this upon the idea that a lot of people can’t repay their loans after 14 days, surprise surprise, because these people are financially irresponsible in the first place, so they “roll over” their loans to give themselves an additional 14 days to come up with the money.  Now I will be the first one to admit that I oppose this, but you have to look at it from the standpoint of the business owner.  This idiot that you gave money to has no money to give back.  You can’t get blood from a turnip.  The only real option is to give them an extension and write another agreement.  Oh sure, they can deposit the check, let it bounce, incur penalties for both the business owner and the customer, that still doesn’t get you any money back in your account.  So the customer hands you the 15% fee, writes a whole new check, gets no more money in return and has another 14 days.  On the store’s books, it looks like they paid their account in full, then took out another loan because, in reality, that’s exactly what happened.  A customer who does this for an entire year doesn’t have one transaction, they have 26 transactions.  This is where it gets important.

The idiot liberals refuse to acknowledge that this is 26 separate transactions, they insist it’s really one transaction where there is 15% interest charged every other week.  This is complete and total and utter bullshit and wholly indefensible.  Nowhere in the contracts that are signed is any term longer than 14 days spelled out.  These are legally binding contracts, they spell out the terms and conditions under which the money is loaned and the requirements for repaying it on time.  That doesn’t work for the dishonest liberals so they spin a whole line of horse shit, complete with fiddly numbers that don’t match the reality, because they’ve got an agenda to defend.

But what happens if they win, if these payday advance places go out of business?  The poor are still going to want that money, that’s why the stores appeared in the first place.  The poor aren’t going to get any more responsible with their money.  But the liberals really don’t want the money coming from private enterprise, they want it coming from the government.  This is just another move to get more tax money handed out to the poor, who won’t have to pay any of it back.  That’s the real agenda here.

We just can’t trust liberals farther than we can throw them.  They don’t care about the truth, only about appealing to emotion. They like to cast payday loan stores and pawn shops as predatory, when they don’t drag anyone through their doors that doesn’t want to be there.  Oh wait, liberalism wants to protect the stupid from themselves, I forgot.  They don’t want anyone to actually have to take personal responsibility for their own finances.  Papa government has to do everything for them.

Is it any reason I hate the liberals and their idiotic agenda so much?

17 thoughts on “Payday Loans and Liberal Irrationality”

  1. Thank you for explaining the details surrounding the US variation on micro-loans. It's helpful to get a different perspective on this controversial issue.
    That being said, I really wish you hadn't used the sweeping generalization of, "The poor aren’t going to get any more responsible with their money." That comes across as if you're accusing all poor people of being irredeemably irresponsible with their money. Obviously not every single one of them are, otherwise payday loan businesses wouldn't be able to survive.
    Admittedly, a percentage are irresponsible, hence the high demand for payday loans, as you correctly pointed out. Please try to use wording that gets across your idea without accusing whole groups of something nefarious.

    1. If these people were responsible for their money in the first place, if they were responsible for their lives in the first place, then there would be no need for any of these places. They wouldn't have awful credit ratings, meaning they would be eligible for regular loans through regular banks. There's nothing nefarious about anything I said, these are just people who have failed to keep their word with regard to credit. The whole point of credit is to return the money, plus whatever interest is owed, on time, every time. That's the basis of every credit card agreement and every loan agreement there is. These are people who fail to uphold their end of the agreement. That's how their credit rating tanks. Responsible people keep their agreements. Irresponsible people don't. The numbers show which camp someone is in.

      1. I do not disagree that those who are irresponsible with their money are making things so much harder on themselves. I went through a bit of that myself, when I was younger. However, I'd like to hope I learned from my earlier mistakes and now try to be much more responsible with my life and money. Surely others could do so, as well.

        That was why I was unhappy with the generalization: because it seemed to claim that all poor are incapable of learning to be responsible. Maybe I misread the earnestness in your tone as accusation?

        1. I don't think they're incapable, I think that often, they are surrounded by people or political positions which tell them that being responsible is either not necessary, or worse, a bad idea, because they're just OWED these things. If people learned from their mistakes, I wouldn't say, it's when they do the same thing over and over and over and over, looking for excuses for why they continue to fail instead of realizing that they are making poor decisions, that's where I object. I've made mistakes, I've learned from my mistakes, I haven't made those same mistakes again. Unfortunately, you have people who not only won't admit that they've made mistakes, they point fingers at everyone but themselves to explain why things continue to turn out badly for them.

  2. "I know I have to speak very, very, very slowly for the liberals, they don’t actually understand reality well, as comes up a lot in discussions."

    You are brain-dead is the only appropriate response to this bullshit.

  3. "Now I will be the first one to admit that I oppose this, but you have to look at it from the standpoint of the business owner."

    If everything you say is about the people who take out these types of loans is true, then surely the person who owns such a business knows all this going in. So why take such a risk? Afterall, it would seem that the risk of failure in such an enterprise is extraordinarily high. Yet these businesses do manage to thrive. Could it be because they know about the habits of such people and are therefore taking advantage of these people. I am very suspicious of the ethics of any person who chooses to engage in this kind of business. A person going into this business would know, as you seem to know, that these people are reckless and irresponsible. (I don't actually think them reckless and irresponsible. Just assuming this for the moment to point out the problem with your reasoning.) So obviously one is taking advantage of their behavior and circumstances to profit. Sure, I know that the sole or primary purpose of any business is to generate profit. But this hardly exempts one from unethical treatment of other people. It may make you a smart business person, and rich at the same time, but it makes you a lousy excuse for a human being. The same can and should be said of those of you who defend this practice.

  4. "But what happens if they win, if these payday advance places go out of business?  The poor are still going to want that money, that’s why the stores appeared in the first place.  The poor aren’t going to get any more responsible with their money."

    If so, then you have just admitted, more or less, a person who enters into this kind of business does so knowing they will be engaging in unethical predatory behavior in order to enrich themself at the expense and welfare of others, who due to their circumstances, education, etc., are most likely to fall victim to such practices. If you actually believe the bullshit you have said, then I have serious doubts about the quality of your ethical and moral compass.

  5. "This is just another move to get more tax money handed out to the poor, who won’t have to pay any of it back. That’s the real agenda here."

    More bullshit. You have no idea what liberals actually want. You have created this absurd idiotic image in your brain of liberals and liberalism and then deluded yourself into believing it represents reality. It is you who has a nearly complete disconnect with reality.

  6. "They don’t care about the truth, only about appealing to emotion."

    You appear to have adopted the Joseph Goebbels school of thought that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes true. You make this remark frequently without any basis for its truth. You certainly have never made a coherent argument with evidence to support this most stupid of comments. And how ironic of you to criticize liberals for appealing to emotions, since you often employ the same tactic. You certainly don't say anything or make any argument on this subject that appeals to reason, critical thinking, or logic.

  7. " Oh wait, liberalism wants to protect the stupid from themselves,…"

    No, we want to protect them from people like yourself who have little, if any, ethical or moral regard for any humans outside of that little circle of family and friends whom you think are somehow more deserving and superior to those who don't share you worldview.

  8. "They don’t want anyone to actually have to take personal responsibility for their own finances."

    Yet another one of the lies you have convinced yourself to be true. Your delusion and detachment from reality runs very, very, very deep indeed.

    This entire post is yet another example of the virulent strain of irrationality that encases your brain and infects your thinking faculties.

  9. "Is it any reason I hate the liberals and their idiotic agenda so much?"

    It is troubling that you hate liberals. Hate is very powerful and ugly emotion; one that often leads to behavior on the part of the one who hates that is tragic in its consequences. It leads one to demonize those with whom you disagree. So I certainly hope you don't actually hate any liberals and that rather this was just a poorly thought-out choice of words to express yourself.

    I am a liberal and I disagree with and am opposed to most of your conservative political and economic thought. But I certainly don't hate you or other conservatives. Nor do I hate your beliefs. I do very strongly and passionately believe they are wrong and misguided. But they are not worthy of hate. If I hated you and what you believe then you would rightly and deservedly share the same place in my mind reserved for the likes of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Gestapo, or Stalin and those who hated so strongly they so willingly and enthusiastically carried out his orders. You need to rethink your use of the word hate, unless of course you do actually think of me and other liberals in the same way that Hitler and the Nazi's saw Jews and all others who were not part of the "Master Race" and did not share their views. If you hate liberals then you share thoughts and emotions with the likes of the KKK, religious fanatics and fundamentalists, white supremacists, the various xenophobes throughout human history and the like. Is this really the crowd with which you wish to be associated even in the slightest degree?

  10. I am not a fan of the loan-shark (payday loans) business, but it is a service that will always be around and at least in its current format the hurt is only financial. If these businesses get banned then the hurt will end up been run by gangsters and they will get their pound of flesh any way the want.

    Its a very big problem, but really all it requires is to take responsibility and knuckle down and not want the nice things. I know its not easy for everyone but sacrifices need to be made to get out of any debt.

    Great analysis Cephus.
    My recent post I am a creationist I am not amused

    1. While there are certainly unfair business people in any industry, I don't find these companies to be "sharks" any more than any other industry. They fill a need in the community, one that, if these businesses went away, would leave the community sorely unfulfilled. It's funny, I keep asking the people who want these businesses to go away completely what the poor people who use them are supposed to do when they're gone and they refuse to answer. Heck, they refuse to even acknowledge that the question was asked. In reality, I suspect they are of one of two minds. Either they just magically expect that the poor are going to stop needing money, or they want the government to come along and hand out bigger checks. Both are far worse (or more ridiculous) options than what we have now.

  11. I took out payday loans for about a year, I was doing it because I wasn't making enough to make my bills. They are right it is a vicious circle. I ended up defaulting on a loan. Sixteen months after I defaulted, they sent my check through my account again. The bank honored it and I am now paying overdrawn fees to my bank. The trouble that I am going through now could have been prevented, if I had found someother way to handle my finances. SO don't take out loans. So you can be prevented from my problems.

    1. Now while I know people run into trouble and I don't want to make this too insulting because that's not how it's intended, I just want to push home the point. You signed a legally binding agreement to pay back the money at a specific point in time. It isn't the cash advance industry that failed here, it's you. You failed to uphold your end of the bargain. You failed to keep your word and you ripped these people off, intentionally or not. It's not their failure. It's yours. Don't go blaming the people who gave you money and were trying to recover it, blame yourself for not keeping your word.

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