What Ever Happened to Responsibility?

Matthew BurdetteStuff like this just bugs me.  In San Diego, a 14-year old boy committed suicide after a classmate took a video of him masturbating in the school bathroom and posted it online.  It wasn’t long before it went viral and everyone knew what he had done.  It also wasn’t long before Matthew Burdette killed himself because he couldn’t take the constant torment.  His parents are suing the school for not stopping a student from filming in the bathroom, although I can’t see how that’s even possible, much less expected.  In the day of ubiquitous cell phones, there is nowhere that you can be assured you’re not being filmed, even in the bathroom.  Of course, the student who made the film and posted it has been arrested, but there’s one thing in all of this that just isn’t being talked about at all.

Why was Matthew Burdette masturbating in his school bathroom in the first place?

Yes, I am sympathetic toward the family, it sucks when someone kills themselves, I understand the pain and the anger at what happened, but why is nobody pointing out Matthew’s part in this?  Who didn’t teach him that masturbating in a public place was inappropriate?  Why isn’t anyone recognizing that Matthew did something unacceptable and had he controlled himself and waited until he got home, this never would have happened?

Because I’ve heard tons of reports on this on the radio and online and I have yet to see anyone even dare to suggest that Matthew’s actions were ultimately to blame.  I’m not saying that those who took the video and ran with it aren’t guilty as well, but this has turned into a very one-sided affair, largely by parents who apparently didn’t teach their child what inappropriate behavior in inappropriate places happens to be, or at the very least, he didn’t listen.

Oh, I’m sure I’ll get a lot of “you’re blaming the victim!” nonsense, but in this case, the victim is, at least partially to blame.  He did something that is illegal and pretty damn stupid to begin with, and his age is no excuse or defense.  Yes, he was filmed (there was no film but damn, I hate “videoed”, what’s a better term?) and that was put up online and that is certainly wrong and needs to be punished and I can understand where the embarrassment must have been awful, but again, Matthew made a personal choice to kill himself instead of man up and deal with the situation that he helped to create.  Again, age is no excuse or defense.  Lots of people get embarrassed and don’t kill themselves and while I have no problem with suicide at all, pointing fingers at everyone except the one that metaphorically “pulled the trigger” is a bit silly too.

This is yet another case where nobody wants to expect responsibility and doesn’t want there to be any consequences whatsoever for wrongdoing.  There’s lots of blame being thrown around and none to the person whose actions started the whole mess.  Maybe we, as a society, need to rethink how we look at things, but first, we need to stop being so touchy-feely emotionally-coddling liberal.  That’s where this mess truly comes from.

847 thoughts on “What Ever Happened to Responsibility?

  1. Why was Matthew Burdette masturbating in his school bathroom in the first place?

    GEE, MAYBE BECAUSE HE WAS SO AFRAID OF WHAT HIS PARENTS WOULD DO TO HIM IF THEY CAUGHT HIM DOING IT AT HOME.

    MAYBE BECAUSE SOME GIRL HE FOUND SEXEY HAD TURNED HM ON AND LEFT HM HANGING,

    AND I SUBMIT FOR YOU AS AN ADULT AND NOT A TEEN WHO YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT KIND OF LIFE AND PRESSURE HE HAD, TO JUDGE HIM IS WRONG.

    WHERE IT NOT FOR SOME ASSHOLE WHO NEEDS HIS PUNK BUTT KICKED AND JAILED, THE POOR TEEN WOULD STILL BE ALIVE,

      1. Are you really that uncomprehending? He is of course saying that what Matthew was doing should not be illegal.

          1. He pretends that the masturbation is illegal. Public exposure is illegal.

            What he did was in poor taste, and done in a place that was inappropriate. And I think the kid knew that or he wouldn't have killed himself as a result.

          2. Matthew did not kill himself because he felt guilty about the masturbation. It should be obvious to you that had the recording of him masturbating not been aired he would still be alive. He committed suicide because of the emotional and psychological suffering from the hazing and tormenting directed at him by his fellow students.

          3. Let us imagine for the moment that Matthew had not been videotaped matsurbating and therefore there was no airing of a videotape for others to see and therefore there would have been no tormenting and hazing directed at him.. Are you saying that he would have committed suicide anyway because he was ashamed of himself after masturbating?

            I doubt it. I'd bet this was not the first time he had masturbated. Also, many teenage boys masturbate and do not commit suicide as a result of doing so. Again, Matthew almost certainly took his own life because of the emotional and psychological tormenting he endured and not because he felt shame about what he had done. If you can't understand this then you just don't understand human psychology. Masturbation is actually a very normal activity among both males and females of all ages. Shame alone is not a strong enough emotion to compel them to commit suicide after having masturbated. If it were the suicide rate would be astronomical.

            "Different studies have found that masturbation is frequent in humans. Alfred Kinsey's 1950s studies on US population have shown that 92% of men and 62% of women have masturbated during their lifespan.[27] Similar results have been found in a 2007 British national probability survey. It was found that, between individuals aged 16 to 44, 95% of men and 71% of women masturbated at some point in their lives. 73% of men and 37% of women reported masturbating in the four weeks before their interview, while 53% of men and 18% of women reported masturbating in the previous seven days." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation#Frequen

          4. Let us imagine that he had restrained himself until he had a moment alone at home.

            No video, no hazing, no suicide.
            Did those studies decide that schools needed to not only teach how to use condoms but give them a private place at school to do so?

          5. I just don't understand the point of this comment. It certainly is not a refutation of my argument that shame is not, as you claimed, what compelled Matthew to commit suicide. You seem incapable of staying on point in an argument.

            I don't know if the studies addressed the topic of teaching the use of condoms or not. Go read them and find out. Teaching the use of condoms is irrelevant to the point I was making in referring you to the studies. Could you please stay focused on the point and not wonder off.

          6. No, I do not advocate in favor of people masturbating in public toilets. If you had paid closer attention you would have read this in my reply five responses down thread where I wrote: " …I think there should be no moral or ethical consequences for masturbating, though I do approve of the legal prohibitions against doing it in public."

            In fact, you even posted a reply to my comment, so how is it that you did not see that last part of the sentence?

          7. Since a legal prohibition is a consequence of masturbating in public, I think you need to rethink your position. You can't have it both ways.

          8. Did you think very carefully before you posted this comment?. How is a legal prohibition a consequence? A legal prohibition is the statement of what you are not legally permitted to do. A consequence would be your punishment for violating that legal prohibition. Legal prohibitions do not follow from consequences.

            How are you getting from my comment that I want it both ways? I said that shame should not be attached to masturbating. I said that hazing should not be a justified response to a person who masturbates. I said there should be no moral or ethical consequences for masturbating. I never said there should be no legal consequences.

            Of course some laws have a moral dimension to them. But I don't think the prohibition against public masturbation should be based on a moral premise. I simply think that masturbating in public would be seen by most people as so offensive that it has the potential to create public disorder. Personally, I would not be offended by a person masturbating in public. But the laws should not be adopted based on what I alone am and am not willing to tolerate or take offense at.

          9. What the hell is going on inside that brain of yours? Of course I am aware of fines and imprisonments for breaking the law. What the hell do you think my sentence "A consequence would be your punishment for violating that legal prohibition" means?

            Something here needs untangled but I am at a loss as to what it is. If I did not know better I would conclude that you are responding to my replies while on some medication that is affecting the clarity of your thought and your comprehension. But I don't think this is what is going on here.

            Somehow you have failed castastrophically to comprehend what I have been saying.

            You wrote the following sentence: "Since a legal prohibition is a consequence of masturbating in public…"

            You need to reread that sentence and think about it. You are saying that a legal prohibition is itself a consequence. That makes no sense at all. This was what I was attempting to point out. Your apparent failure to understand that has now spiraled into a conversation of utter confusion on your part.

            I don't discount the possibility that the confusion is at my end. But if so then you need to explain how the hell you got the idea that a legal prohibition is some form of a consequence.

          10. If you don't advocate for masturbation in public toilets then this teen didn't follow your position and yet you want to pretend that making that activity legal would have solved the consequences he faced for it.

            I have to ask you the same question you threw at Cephus.

          11. Pay closer attention Roger. I am not the one who argued that masturbating in public should be legal. That was Neil. I have repeatedly said I support the legal prohibition against masturbating in public. Since your mind seems to be to simple to understand the phrase legal prohibition, it means that I approve of it being illegal to masturbate in public.

            Also, I never said that legalizing it would "have solved the consequences he faced for it." (By the way, the word solved is wrongly used in your sentence. Consequences are not some kind of problem requiring a solution. You don't solve consequences.)

          12. Dogma, I am paying attention.

            You started with this:
            "Are you really that uncomprehending? He is of course saying that what Matthew was doing should not be illegal."

            Now you have had your position evolve to not endorsing public masturbation.

            Which is it?

          13. I now know with certainty that you have reading comprehension difficulties. When I wrote "Are you really that uncomprehending. He is of course saying that what Matthew was doing should not be illegal" I was explaining to Cephus the remarks made by Neil. I was not endorsing the position. So, no you have not been paying careful attention. Go back and read the sequence of comments, starting with Neil's second comment in this thread.

          14. I know for a certainty you just can't pay attention, whether you have other comprehension difficulties I don't know or care.

            But you have made ambiguous statements like these:
            "You are saying that a legal prohibition is itself a consequence. That makes no sense at all…"

            "I think there should be no moral or ethical consequences for masturbating, though I do approve of the legal prohibitions against doing it in public."

            Asking if you advocate for masturbation in public toilets is a reasonable question based on those comments.

          15. If you think that the two statements of mine you quoted are ambiguous then you do have a comprehension disability.

            A legal prohibition is not a consequence and that is why I was questioning Cephus about it. He wrote that it was.

            The only way you can conclude that the second sentence is ambiguous is if you are operating under the incorrect assumption that ethical, moral and legal mean the same thing. Something can be ethical or unethical and/or be moral or immoral without being legal or illegal. So it is quite possible to consider an action or belief to be unethical or immoral without it being illegal.

            Asking if I advocate for masturbation in public restrooms is indeed a reasonable question, but not on the basis that the two statements you quoted are ambiguous. They were not. The problem was not with the statements. It is with the defective way your brain works.

            It should be clear to you now what my position is on the legality of masturbating in public spaces. Now what further self-generated confusion inside your head do I need to clear up for you.

          16. Come on, you can do better than that.

            Make it twice that long or go home!

            What is clear is you can't stand being caught at being on both sides of an issue so you ramble enough that nobody pays attention.

          17. Exactly. He doesn't like how I phrase something so he has this conniption because he feels he has to be morally outraged, he just can't find any intelligent way to express it.

            Typical liberal.

          18. I don't think they're immoral, any more than conservatives, I think that they get upset, then they look for things to express their unhappiness over. They usually can't intellectually describe why they are upset because their reaction is wholly emotional, therefore they look for the most absurdly minor issues to dump their dismay all over.

          19. Emotions can be a sort of quick sand. Always shifting, always insubstantial.

            I don't think progressive liberals are immoral, I think they are amoral. And built on the ideology that emotions can guide them, it leads them into all sorts of issues.

            If this child needed immediate gratification, then it's all right. If someone mocks him, it's not his fault. If he didn't like the societal reaction it's not his fault. If his parents were too out of touch to help him, it's not his fault, or even their fault.

            (I notice the parents are strangely absent in this report)

            The blame never goes to the cause, but to the reaction of it.

          20. Exactly and I did a follow-up to this which won't post until 9/3 which addresses precisely that point. It's all an emotional reaction to a story, not an intellectual evaluation of the story.

          21. "It's all an emotional reaction to a story, not an intellectual evaluation of the story."

            Some pretty dumb reasoning you have here. My remarks have not been emotional. But yet you describe them as such. I have little doubt that you think this not because my arguments are emotionally-based, but rather because you can't conceive of someone disagreeing with you or criticizing you unless they are being emotional.

            It is amazing how self-deluded you are and how self-justifying is your reasoning. You really do need to read Carol Tavris' book Mistakes Were Made But Not By Me and do some deep reflection as you read. You are a textbook example of much of what she talks about in that book. <a href="http://(http://www.amazon.com/Mistakes-Were-Made-But-Not/dp/0156033909#)” target=”_blank”>(http://www.amazon.com/Mistakes-Were-Made-But-Not/dp/0156033909#)

          22. "If someone mocks him, it's not his fault."

            Okay Roger. Then I assume you will right now take blame for all the mocking and insults that Cephus, I and others have directed at you over the months. After all, it must be your fault that we mocked and insulted you. Right?

          23. I want to make sure I fully understand you. When you typed the word "yes" at the end of this sentence, you were intending to say, "Yes, I am to blame for all the mocking and insulting of me that others at this atheist website have directed at me and because I am to blame for it I deserved all of this mocking and the insults? "

            Just respond with a yes or a no, nothing more. I don't want you to say anything that might be ambiguous or possibly misinterpreted by me as you providing a weasley answer. I have asked you a direct question that requires nothing more than a yes or no.

          24. Tring in your usual sly and side ways kind of thinking to put words in my mouth?

            My comment was very clear. I knew that I was 'taking that chance' yes. Not 'I'm going to let Dogma redefine clear wording to make my comment about anything other than that' kind of a yes.

            He should have known when he was active in that stall he was taking a risk of being observed.

          25. I was not not attempting to put words in your mouth. I asked a simple yes or no question in order to clarify what you meant by the use of the word "yes" in the previous reply. I still don't know what you were saying yes to.

            If the question I asked is not a correct statement about what your yes meant, then simply say no to the question I posed. Then we can proceed from there to try to understand what you meant by the comment to which I had responded. You are the one who wrote a sentence that implied that a person who is mocked and insulted by others is to blame for the mocking and those insults.

            Your comment was not clear. It is unclear if you said that you knew there was a risk of being mocked when you came to this website and that is what your yes was in response to, or if you were saying that you deserved to be mocked and are to blame for that mockery. If you said yes to the latter then you answered my original question. If your yes was a response to the former then you answered a question I did not actually ask.

            I did not ask the following question, which you seem to think I did:

            "Did you come to this website knowing or suspecting that you would be mocked and insulted?"

            This is the question I asked, which is an entirely different question from the one you seem to think I asked:

            Are you saying ""Yes, I am to blame for all the mocking and insulting of me that others at this atheist website have directed at me and because I am to blame for it I deserved all of this mocking and the insults? "

            I asked this question because you said in an earlier reply that Matthew was to blame for all the mocking and insults he received for his act of masturbating. Applying the implied reasoning behind this statement, then we must conclude that your act of coming to this website and posting comments makes you to blame for the mocking directed at you. Reason and consistency in your logic demands that if one person is to blame for the mocking they received due to an act they performed, all others are responsible for the mocking they receive for the acts they perform. So are you to blame for the mocking and insults you have received? Is it your fault that you have been mocked and insulted by others on this blog?

          26. i realize the rest of the trolls are banned from here, but you an Iranian centric muslim thinking person who said this about goat brides may not understand our culture…

            3 hours ago @ KTLA-TV – Local Reaction to Obam… · 12 replies · 0 points"……
            marrying goats is universal…."

          27. It is not a question of liking or disliking the way you phrased it. You made a statement that is not correct. Legal prohibitions are not consequences. And you have thus far failed to offer a response that provides an argument that they are. If I am wrong here then offer a rebuttal that explains how I am wrong.

            And I have not expressed any moral outrage. That is a very silly and stupid description of what I have been saying.

            Your failure to respond with only statements like "typical liberal" and nothing resembling an argument defending your statement qualifies you as a typical lightweight thinker.

          28. Masturbation by itself is not illegal. A person is free to masturbate without penalty of law in their own home.

            But, yes, masturbating in a public space, such as a school bathroom, is illegal. Had school officials chosen to report him and press charges, he could have been arrested, charged with a criminal offense, prosecuted, and if found guilty, had a criminal punishment imposed on him.

          29. So it wasn't an illegality that he faced, just societal consequences for his actions.

            Thank you, you do realize you're done here at this point?

          30. I don't know what you mean by "it wasn't an illegality that he faced." You are going to need to clarify that sentence. I assume this sentence makes sense to you inside your head, but it reads like gibberish to me.

            Is it possible that you are thinking that masturbating and doing so in public are two acts dependent in some way on each other? Do you think that I am simultaneously saying that masturbating is both legal and illegal? If you do think this then what I write is getting seriously confused, twisted and contorted inside your brain as you read it and that is happening inside your brain as a result of something your brain is doing wrong.

            I don't know how you derived what you wrote from what I wrote.

            I never said he faced an illegality, whatever the that phrase is suppose to mean.

            While there were consequences suffered by Matthew, and I suppose you could call them "societal", they were not inevitable consequences. None of those things had to happen. None of those people had to torment Matthew. None of them had to inflict such deeply painful emotional and psychological trauma on Matthew. None of them had to shame and humiliate him, even in the slightest. He is not to blame for those acts. He is not responsible for those acts. Thus the consequences he suffered were not his fault, not his responsibility. The only consequences that would have been his fault, had they befallen him, were the disciplinary actions the school officials might have, but apparently did, not take, and/or the legal consequences, which also were never imposed on him. By this I mean the criminal punishment that might have and could have been imposed.

            I am not done Roger. Explain what makes you think I am.

          31. Yes, you did use easily understandable words that are in common usage in the
            English language. I know the definition of each of the words you used. The problem is not with the words you used, but the way you combined them into a sentence. Your sentence is not understandable. You seem to think that all that is necessary for understanding is to use words that people know the meaning of. You can string together any number of understandable words together and yet have a sentence that makes no sense or says nothing understandable. This is what you have done.

            So, clarify your statement because it still makes no sense.

          32. Well ain't that something Roger. Nobody else but you was paying attention and had enough intelligence to see through my alleged smoke and mirrors gambit. So that makes you the self-proclaimed sole genius at Bitchspot; the self-proclaimed superior intellect. Just one problem Roger: You are delusional and full of shit! I never held contradicting positions on this issue. I never stated contradicting positions on this issue. Your ability to think has been so severely degraded and compromised that you are just shy of being some form of the walking and talking dead.

          33. Roger, for you to claim I have not proven any of my points you must first know what those points are. So demonstrate to me that you have understood what I have been saying and state, in your own words if you like, what are the points you think I have thus far failed to prove.

          34. You are intentionally dodging the question and being obtuse while doing so.

            Yes, of courses, I know what are the points I have been making. What I am trying to establish is if you know what they are. So tell me what you think they are?

            You claimed that I have not proven them. But you can't know this, nor is your claim if remotely a truth claim, unless you can demonstrate that you know what those points are. So do so.

            That you are dodging my request that you demonstrate that you understand what I have been saying is much more telling than your invented charge that I don't know my own points.

          35. Jesus Christ! I never said there were no consequences experienced by Matthew. I have repeatedly said he is not to blame for those consequences, because the people who inflicted them on him did not have to do so. Each of them had a choice: Torment Matthew or don't torment Matthew. There is no law of nature that prevented any of them from choosing not to torment Matthew. They are responsible for that choice, not Matthew. And since the multiple acts of tormenting are the consequences of which we are talking, and those people could have chosen not to torment Matthew, they, and not Matthew, are responsible and to blame for those actions(consequences).

          36. Yet Matthew had a choice too, masturbate or don't masturbate and if he had made the correct choice, he'd still be alive today. Imagine that.

          37. Of course he had a choice. And yes if he had not chosen to masturbate at that particular moment at particular location, there would have been nothing for the others to make a choice about. But this does not make Matthew responsiblefor nor to blame for the choices of the others. How is it that you can't understand that. The ethical and moral blame for those choices rest with the people who made those choices, not with Matthew for the choice he made. You need to take some lesson in reasoning as well as moral philosophy and ethics.

          38. It makes him responsible for his choice and for the consequences that arose from making that choice. Everything sprang from his choice, it all hinges on the bad decision that he made. That doesn't excuse the bad decisions made by others down the line, but Matthew made the first mistake and it cascaded from there. You refuse to acknowledge his mistake. You need to take some lessons in critical thinking and logic.

          39. Sure he is, he took risks by masturbating in a public restroom with other people also in it.

            It goes to him.
            Dont' blame me if you can't keep up with such obvious logic.

          40. What you should have written is "Don't blame me if you can't keep up with such obvious illogic." Then your statement would have some truth value.

          41. He was alone in the bathroom. You mean to tell me you've never jerked off in a bathroom before?

          42. Apparently he was not alone, someone else filmed him. Thus, it was a public place and he had no business masturbating there. That's an activity for a private place, not a public place.

          43. This kid had no right to film matthew and put it on the internet. he did not have his permission to use video of him and put it online.

            How do we know what really happened? Was he spying on him? was he looking over the stall while he was jerking off?

            He was bullying him that much is clear.

          44. Nobody is saying he did, nobody is excusing that kid's actions. He wasn't bullying him when he took the video, that's a ridiculous definition of the term. What came later, that may well have been bullying, but holding a cell phone and filming someone is not bullying. That's become a useless, meaningless, catch-all phrase that really describes nothing.

          45. Taking footage of somebody and putting it on the internet for the whole world to see without that persons permission a form of bullying

          46. It's a form of social rejection.

            That kind of rejection is why Matthew should have chosen a more secure place to perform his activities.

          47. No, it's a form of bullying. If that bully had been an adult, he could be tried for murder or manslaughter.

          48. Of course not. Are you just here to cover for Alinsky who's doing so badly on another site? The posse sure does work in a coordinated way.

          49. I have been.

            If you are so self identified with the poor boy who had no self control and a lack of judgement, why not explain how your situation played out? Did some other men video it and use it to embarrass you?

          50. He killed himself because some punk kid filmed him masturbating and then put it all over the internet for the whole world to see!

            Why do kids have these smart phones in the first place? They don't need them. Kids should not have cell phones.

            Period.

          51. I know our values are different in the US than your native Iran.

            For example when I asked you once about sharia demanding a 14 year old rape victim be stoned, you defended it with this:

            'If it's the law of the land then it is the law of the land and is right according to their laws. yes.'

            If you can defend a rape victim being stoned, I'm afraid I'm going to throw that back at you. You don't understand our culture in the west, and if our young can legally carry smart phones it's really none of you business.

          52. Just the rape victim being stoned to death. So there!

            "If it's the law of the land then it is the law of the land and is right according to their laws. yes."

          53. I have never taken a flawed stance. You're just a stupid troll.

            I provide facts and evidence to prove my views are right and correct.

            It's not my fault your whole world is a lie.

          54. I have never taken a flawed stance. You're just a stupid troll.

            I provide facts and evidence to prove my views are right and correct.

            It's not my fault your whole world is a lie.

          55. Your stance on goat marriages being universally accepted if flawed. That's just one.

            What is your fault is that all your comments are lies.
            Do they really pay you enough?

          56. And you think stating the incredibly obvious contributes anything meaningful to the conversation?

          57. Yes, since you seem to think it's illegal, there is no shame and that what happened shouldn't be the subject of possible hazing.

            School should be for one thing, an education. Any distraction from that is a bad thing. Even if it's getting busy in the toilet stalls.

          58. I don't think masturbation is illegal. But it is currently illegal to perform the act in a public place.

            I don't think shame should be attached to masturbating since it is actually a very normal human behavior. It is only viewed as shameful in our culture because of the archaic religious morals perpetuated by your fellow believers. And I also don't think that hazing is a proper or justified moral or ethical action to take against a person who does masturbate. In fact, I think there should be no moral or ethical consequences for masturbating, though I do approve of the legal prohibitions against doing it in public.

          59. Well, I could go for the knee jerk insult, but I won't.

            Delayed gratification. It means you know you want something but you know if you wait it will be better in the long run. If this boy had understood that and had waited until after school, he would probably still be with us today.

          60. Why were you considering an insult? I did not insult you in the reply to which you were responding. That said, I frankly don't care if you insult me. You seem to think insults you hurl at me have some meaning and therefore some sting. They don't.

            As for delayed gratification, I never contested the notion that Matthew would probably still be alive had he waited to masturbate at home rather than in the school bathroom. But the fact that he did masturbate at school does not make him to blame for the acts of the boy who videotaped him and those who tormented him after seeing the video.

          61. Your comments, you are paying attention aren't you? Your comments have a condescending tone and I was going to reply in kind, but figured I would rise above it.

            If a child acts out and suffers consequences for that acting out, then he should accept responsibility for them.

            Part of growing up is learning that some things have a price tag.
            Part of being a parent is knowing when your child is over his head and stepping in. Why didn't these parents move, or change schools that he attended?

          62. "If a child acts out and suffers consequences for that acting out, then he should accept responsibility for them. "

            I have no quarrel with this notion. But we aren't talking about a child acting out. This was not a case of a child having some kind of fit or tantrum or belligerently defying a figure authority such as his mother. The case of Matthew is not identical the child acting out analogy. It isn't even similar enough to justify your use of this analogy. You are comparing apples to oranges here. You are employing a false analogy which is an instance of the flawed argument from analogy.

            Had Matthew been caught by the principal, for example, he would have been appropriately disciplined and those would have been the appropriate consequences for his act. The videotaping of Matthew masturbating, the posting of that video, and the tormenting directed at him were not the appropriate consequences for what he did. Furthermore, he was not responsible for any of those acts. He shares no blame for being videotaped, nor for being subjected to public humiliation of the most degrading kind, nor for the hazing and tormenting other students directed at him.

          63. He had a maturity level of a big child and his performing a deed / acting out is what got him into the position of being mocked.

          64. What is your basis for claiming he had the maturity level of a big child? The only thing we know about Matthew is that he was 14 years old, he masturbated in a stall in the school bathroom, and that two weeks after the posting of a videotape of him doing so he committed suicide. You don't know anywhere enough about his personality, his character, or his behavior to draw the conclusion that he had the maturity level of anything other than a 14-year-old.

            He was not acting out. He did perform a particular act. But you are going to need to have to provide some persuasive explanation of how what he did could be and should be described as acting out. The phrase "acting out" in everyday use typically refers to someone throwing a tantrum, being belligerent toward some authority figure after being told not to do something, misbehaving as an act of defiance, and things of this nature. Matthew masturbating in the school bathroom fits none of these. So in what way was his masturbating an act of "acting out."

            Nothing in the original story gives cause to conclude he was acting out. He was kicked out of his classroom, for reasons not cited in the story, and probably told to go to the main office. Instead he wondered the halls until he went to the bathroom where he proceeded to masturbate. The story says nothing about why he decided to masturbate. And we will never know now for certain since he isn't here to answer that question. Every answer that you, I or anyone else might offer as to why he decided to masturbate at that time will be just pure and baseless speculation.

          65. He acted out by jerking off in a bathroom stall at school with other people in the restroom.

            It's also a clear sign his maturity level wasn't up to understanding the risks he took in doing so.

            You really are grasping here and it's showing.

          66. He performed an act. But that is not the same thing as "acting out" and does not have the same meaning as the phrase acting out. I should be surprised that you don't understand the common usage meaning of the phrase "acting out," but then there is much about word usage, phrasing and sentence construction in the English language of which you don't have a firm grasp or a particularly well-developed sense of how to employ them skillfully.

            You nor I know what he understood about the risks. For all you or I know he may have understood the risks and simply ignored them, or decided that the risk was worth taking. So you are not knowledgeable enough to make assumptions about his maturity level based on your assumptions about what he may have thought about the risks involved. Everything you are saying is just speculation built upon unsupported assumptions, all of which is, I think, worthless, but you are using in an unjustified manner to make moral judgements about Matthew.

            It may be that the only risks he thought likely was the risk of being discovered by a teacher or school official. It is quite possible that being filmed in a private stall did not, in his mind, if he even thought of the possibility, seem like a very high risk to him. You haven't enough information to draw conclusions about what he did and did not understand concerning the risks. You are making assumptions, and often times all assumptions accomplish is to make an ass out of the person who makes them. None of us can or will ever know what thoughts he had about the risks involved. And because this is so it is you who is grasping at things, all so you can feel a sense of moral superiority.

            While Matthew was "jerking off" as you so crudely put it, you're doing a little jerking off of your own. You are engaging in a considerable amount of mental masturbation in this conversation.

          67. Sure it's the same. A mature level headed child that understood risks wouldn't have done what he did, so… his actions reflect on his emotional state. He acted out.

            And you are still grasping.

          68. How do you know other people were in there at the time he started?

            How do you know that this bully didn't just break down the stall he was in and start filming him ?

            How do you know if this kid was just stalking him like a creep ?

          69. I realize that you're paid hack troll, sent here to 'drive people out of the temple/site' but really, what do you hope to accomplish by jumping in and trying to apply Iranian thinking to this story?

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            "I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out."

          70. You should step outside of your moms basement for a while and see the world for what it really is.

            Show some compassion for humanity.

          71. You know, no matter how many times you come back and post a shit-ton of short responses, essentially proclaiming victory without having anything meaningful to say, you still have never proven your case, you just make yourself look ridiculous. Nobody cares what your opinion is if you can’t back your opinion up with well-reasoned, critically-thought-out responses.

            You have utterly failed to do that. Posting a dozen or more responses in the same thread saying the same nonsense over and over again isn’t impressing anyone. Please rethink your strategy.

          72. Roger is a troll, he never backs away from his failed beliefs no matter how many times he is poven wrong.

            He is a troll. A very bad one too.

            My position is clear matthew is a victim of bullying, the school is to blame, and what you do in the bathroom is your business. Cameras are not allowed in bathrooms.

            You’re offensive because whether you know it or not, you are excusing his bully who should be punished.

          73. Reality. Everyone has a cell phone, everyone takes their cell phone into the bathroom, hence cameras are not only allowed in restrooms, they are almost always there. What planet do you live on?

          74. You are a stupid troll.

            Matthew was attacked. He was bullied.

            This kid bullied him.

            The kid that filmef matthew has maturity isdues.

          75. Sounds like you have less self control than the kid did.

            But then in Iran that may be common. How the goats must hate to see you when you show up.

          76. At 14 he should have the markings of a young man. And yes, unlike islamic men that need women to wear burkas, western men show restraint.

          77. He 'excused' himself to another place where there wasn't privacy. You may not know what stalls are like in schools, but total privacy isn't something they offer.

          78. "…acting out is what got him into the position of being mocked."

            No, this is not so. What got him in the position of being mocked was the posting of the videotape of him masturbating, not the act of masturbating itself. Sure, if he had not gone into the bathroom at that particular moment there were never had been the intersection of him and the boy who videotaped Matthew masturbating. But that act, the act of videotaping Matthew, is solely the responsibility of the boy who did it. The boy who videotaped Matthew did not have to do that. He chose to do it. He is solely responsible for that decision and that act. That boy is also solely responsible for the decision to post the videotape to a social media. Again, he did not have to do that. You and Cephus seem to be operating under the false assumption that all the acts that occurred after Matthew began masturbating and up to and including his suicide form a chain of inevitable events. They do not. And because they do not Matthew is not responsible, and therefore, not to blame for any of the acts that came after his act of masturbating.

            The boy who videotaped Matthew and posted it is solely responsible for and to blame for those acts, and bears full responsibility for the consequences that followed. Why? Because, and I can't say this often enough, the boy did not have to choose to do either of those things. He created the circumstances that led to Matthews public humiliation. All those who tormented, hazed, taunted, teased and mocked Matthew after seeing the video and/or hearing from others about it are responsible for their acts. None of them had to do what they did. Some of them at least had to know that such public humiliation could lead to such a tragic outcome. The boy who posted the video had to have, or should have had, some inkling of what would or could likely follow from his posting of the video.

            In any event, none of the acts following Matthew's act of masturbating are his responsibility nor his fault. None of them were inevitable events that had to following Matthew's act. Each was a choice made by someone other than Matthew. Each of those choices, sadly and tragically, compelled a 14-year-old to feel so humiliated, so demeaned, so dehumanized, so emotionally and psychology tortured, that in his state of mind, as more irrational as it likely was than what is likely for a normal 14-year-old, he concluded that suicide was the only way to make the deeply felt and intense pain and suffering go away.

          79. The video mocking him would not have happened had he not 'acted' in a way that was rejected by his peers.

            You are grasping and it's not working.

            Notice I didn't have to do 15 paragraphs to answer?

          80. No, the video would not have happened if the boy who made it had chosen not to do so. You seem to think that this boy's act of videotaping Matthew had to happen, was inevitable, that he had no choice but to videotape Matthew. But it was his choice to videotape or not videotape. It was his choice to post the video on a social media or not post it. Neither of these choices were Matthew's to make, thus were not choices for which he is in anyway responsible for or to blame.

            And you need to learn how to count. The post of my to which you replied was not 15 paragraphs, but was only three paragraphs. The reason you did not need 15 paragraphs is because you supplied only an assertion without any attempt at an argument to persuade anyone that the assertion is true or should be accepted. You do this frequently. My replies tend to be longer because I offer explanations and arguments with my statements. You offer nothing even remotely resembling this, thus the shortness of your comments.

            And repeating the statement that I am grasping does not establish its truth. You can repeat a statement a billion times and it still is not any truer than the first time you said it.

          81. If the boy inside wasn't 'busy' what would the video have been?

            See, your logic collapses with that one little, short, concise fact.

          82. Yup, he made two mistakes, first masturbating in a public restroom in the first place, secondly, over-reacting to the hazing. Yet the liberals refuse to place any blame on him at all for anything he did. Imagine that.

          83. The next day when everybody was laughing at him because they saw it on youtube. That's how it happened.

            Or when that young girl committed suicide after being bullied. Or when that other young girl committed suicide after seeing video of her online being raped while passed out drunk.

          84. He was bullying the kid. He bullied the kid to death. You think it's ok for someone to be punished with death for masturbating.

            You think it's ok. I think it's wrong. I think that little punk kid needs to learn about the golden rule.

          85. It's not right to spy on people and film people and put it online for the whole world to see.

            How would you like it if somebody did that to YOU!

          86. It isn't smart to do something like that in a public restroom then expect nobody will notice.

            Why don't you tell us your story, what were you doing when they videotaped you?

          87. I don't want to.

            But then again I don't want to do private things where I can be observed.

            This kid didn't learn that lesson in time.

          88. Sure you are.
            If you don't want to be reminded of the comments made on this profile by previous trolls, then use a new profile.

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

          89. You prove that you are a troll by posting that comment. Who are you trying to fool roger you stupid troll?

          90. Why do you act as if a video of this nature isn't something to be ashamed of?

            The kid realized it was. He couldn't deal with his shame. Do you know that kind of shame perhaps?

          91. The video caused a chain of events that everybody regrets and feels shame. The bully, the victim, the school, their families.

            The video should have never been made. That started the chain reaction.

          92. A 14 year old can't file charges. His parents did the right thing in suing the school. The school is to blame. They put the safety of this kid at risk.

          93. The boy had no right to film him.

            If you go for a drive and get hit by drunk driver it’s your fault because you didn’t have to go for a drive. You could have stayed home.

            That’s your stupid logic

          94. Just repeating the same thing over and over without actually having a discussion isn't going to convince anyone. There's a word for doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results: insanity.

          95. He was bullied. He was driven to suicide. he is just a kid and cannot be held accountable for his actions. His parents are accountable. The school is accountable

          96. He didn't act badly. His bully acted badly.

            You may think that matthew got what he deserved but I think he is an innocent victim. That's one of the many differences between me and you.

          97. He didn't act badly. His bully acted badly.

            You may think that matthew got what he deserved but I think he is an innocent victim. That's one of the many differences between me and you.

          98. Were you trying to, how did you say it?

            13 minutes ago @ Bitch Spot – What Ever Happened to … · 4 replies · 0 points
            "I always use the correct position."

            Were you doing that when you were filmed and humiliated?

          99. He was bullied to death.

            Is taking responsibility for his own actions committing suicide? Is that justice in your fundamentalist warped troll mind?

          100. Is taking responsibility for his own actions committing suicide? Is that justice in your fundamentalist warped troll mind?

          101. Were you doing this when it happened to you?

            13 minutes ago @ Bitch Spot – What Ever Happened to … · 4 replies · 0 points
            I always use the correct position.

          102. No it's not. That kid had no right to film matthew and put it online. Cameras are not allowed in restrooms

          103. No they wouldn't. Not with a sense of privacy. Nobody should EVER know what somebody is doing in the restroom.

            Don't violate peoples personal space

          104. What do you mean rejected by his peers? You think 14 years old reject masturbation? REALLY?!?!

            HAHAHAHA

            The video was a violation of his rights. It would have never happened if his parents had raised him right or his teachers had gotten through to him

          105. He wasn't rejected by his peers. he was being bullied. Bullying is a problem in this nation.

            Some stupid bratty kid thought it would be funny to film a kid masturbating in a bathroom stall and put it online.

          106. Matthew had no permission to masturbate there. That's something that, no matter how often it's pointed out, you refuse to acknowledge.

          107. Is there a law in the school code that says masturbation is un-permissable?

            Matthew is the victim.

          108. Wow you're stupid.

            Who is that kid to play judge and jury and lay out punishment?

            Is the punishment for masturbating in a bathroom stall death?

          109. Wow you're a hack paid troll, why does this anger you so much, does someone have a tape of you, a video you don't want released?

          110. Who is that kid to play judge and jury and lay out punishment?

            Is the punishment for masturbating in a bathroom stall death?

          111. Who is the kid who decided to take the risks and knew other people might hear?

            Is the choice the childs or not?

            If he made that choice, he made his bed.

          112. The bullying video would have never happened if the bully Had stayed home. Or if his mom had given head

          113. He was violated and bullied by a bully. The parents have every right to prosecute the school.

          114. He was violated. He was bullied. He had no right to film matthew. He did nit have his permission to film him. He did not have his permission to put it online.

          115. Why do you want a little boy to be punished for something that is completely natural? He killed himself but he was driven to that point by this kid that bullied him

          116. No, if that stupid creepy bully hadn't put his personal business against his will, all over the internet for the whole world to see he would still be with us.

          117. We all take chances. Taking chances is what life is about.

            The kid had no right to film matthew. He did not have matthews permission to take video of him and put it up online.

            The schools job is to protect the kids so the school SHOULD be punished.

          118. Yes, we all take chances and when we take chances, there are potential consequences to our actions. If we're not willing to accept the consequences of our actions, we should not take those actions. And no, it is not the school's job to protect the kids, it is the school's job to educate the kids. It is the parent's job to raise their children to act properly in public situations.

          119. Yes it is. You’ve never worked for the schools.

            Its the schools job to provide a conducive environment for learning.

          120. His rights were violated. I'm sure his bully realizes he is a victim of his own bad judgment.

          121. The rights of everyone in the restroom were violated, had he done that at a place of employment the others could have filed a sexual harassment claim against him,

          122. Why, would they catch you doing this?

            13 minutes ago @ Bitch Spot – What Ever Happened to … · 4 replies · 0 points
            I always use the correct position.

          123. I think his handlers only approve so many comments and then he has to mix and match them in order to make them last until the next bunch.

          124. The little troll boy is pointing fingers.

            As if you have the credibility to do that …

            Hahahahahahaha….

            Seriously, once you admit to being paid to drive people away your believability goes down the toilet.

      2. 1. THE KID WHO KILLED HIMSELF

        1. AS I THINK I EXPLAINED BEFORE,

        A. AS I AM 79, I USE ALL CAPS SO I CAN READ WHAT I WRITE MORE EASILY

        B; NO ONE IS FORCE TO READ MY POSTS

      1. It depends. Should people be recording in the bathroom? Of course not. No one is arguing otherwise. However, should people have privacy to do anything they want in a public bathroom stall? Nope, I don't think so. Those stalls exist for one purpose. If you are using that stall for a purpose other than what it was intended, certainly you can expect to get attention that may be unwanted. If Senator Larry Craig is in there getting a blowjob through a gloryhole, he has no real expectation of privacy. If someone is in there singing Nancy Sinatra songs at the top of their lungs, they have no real expectation of privacy. Now I have no clue how anyone knew that this kid wasn't in a stall taking a dump, which would lead them to start filming. Maybe they get off on people taking a crap, I don't know, but I would assume that there was some indication that he was in there doing something that he wasn't supposed to be doing in a public restroom stall.

          1. Who is going to get sent here by his handlers to call people communists?

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

      2. First of all this was a minor who’s rights were violated. He was bullied by some punk kid and the school is to blame for failing to provide safety.

          1. Apparently, some people do. Now you don't WANT people to film other people in bathrooms, I get that and I agree, but the fact is, it happens and everyone is personally responsible for making sure they're not doing anything they shouldn't be doing that they don't want shared with the planet. Welcome to the modern world, like it or not.

          2. "…. everyone is PERSONALLY responsible for making sure they're not doing anything they shouldn't be doing that they don't want shared with the planet."

            Bathroom stalls are for going to the bathroom in, but I still wouldn't want myself recorded and that recording shared with the world. In fact, I can't think of anything I do in the bathroom that I'd like to share with the planet.

  2. "… I have yet to see anyone even dare to suggest that Matthew’s actions were ultimately to blame."

    Because his actions are not ultimately to blame. Sure, it was inappropriate and not a good idea to masturbate in the bathroom. But there is absolutely no rationalization that justifies the act of the person who recorded Matthew masturbating. This person is solely culpable for all the hazing and torment that followed and led to the state of mind that propelled Matthew to suicide. None of what followed the recording of Matthew's masturbation, including Matthew's suicide, would have happened had that person not recorded and posted it. Matthew masturbating in the bathroom was not a cause for anyone to record the act. Matthew is the victim here. But then you have a habit of wanting to lay some of the blame on the victim.

    1. HELLO DESTROYDOGMA

      IT IS CERTAINLY NICE TO READ THE COMMENTS OF SOMEONE WHO USES COMMON SENSE, LOGIC AND RATIONAL THINKING SKILLS AS YOU DEMONSTRATE YOU DO!

      NEIL

  3. "Oh, I’m sure I’ll get a lot of “you’re blaming the victim!” nonsense, but in this case, the victim is, at least partially to blame. He did something that is illegal and pretty damn stupid to begin with, and his age is no excuse or defense."

    No, the victim is responsible for only one thing: committing the illegal act of masturbating in a public place. Matthew is not responsible for the illegal recording of this act by another and then posting it. Matthew is not responsible for the tormenting inflicted on him by others.

  4. "Matthew made a personal choice to kill himself instead of man up and deal with the situation that he helped to create."

    You obviously don't have the first clue about psychology and the workings of the human mind. Let us hope that you never have to deal with an emotional trauma so severe that suicide literally becomes in the sufferer's mind the only rational way to end the suffering. You are operating under the delusion that rationalism is the default position of the brain. You seem to think all a person has to do to solve a personal crisis is flip on the switch in the brain to activate their rationalism. You are about as deeply ignorant of human psychology and the workings of the human brain as a person can be.

  5. "Lots of people get embarrassed and don’t kill themselves…"

    You think that what Matthew experienced was simple embarrassment? Obviously, you don't know what it is like to experience a deeply disturbing emotional and/or psychological trauma, which in all probability is what Matthew was experiencing. An analogy in this case would be a person who suffers severe physical trauma to the head and other parts of the body in a really bad car accident. And here you are thinking that what he experienced was nothing more than a bruised knee or a cut to the arm that requires a few stitches.

  6. "This is yet another case where nobody wants to expect responsibility and doesn’t want there to be any consequences whatsoever for wrongdoing."

    Seriously? You think there was no consequence for wrongdoing? Matthew suffered an shitload of emotional and psychological injury from his tormenters, and you think there were no consequences for his action? The trauma pain of this torment was so intense that he thought his only way out was suicide and you think there were no consequences? Matthew suffered consequences for his illegal and inappropriate act that are far out of proportion to what he did. Had he been caught rather than recorded, he would have been punished. But that punishment would have come nowhere near the severity of what happened to him instead.

    "Maybe we, as a society, need to rethink how we look at things, but first, we need to stop being so touchy-feely emotionally-coddling liberal."

    No. What we need is to hope that your depraved, twisted, demented view of life never takes root, never finds nourishment, but rather withers and dies inside that appallingly degenerate brain of yours.

    1. You miss the point, again, even though you quote it. There's a difference between someone not wanting there to be any consequences and there not actually being any consequences. There are consequences to actions all the time. Some of those consequences are positive, some of them are negative and we can only make intelligent, rational decisions by being aware of the potential consequences of our actions and acting accordingly. Matthew did not. While he didn't deserve what happened to him, he certainly made a decision that facilitated it. He's as much to blame for the situation as the boy who took the video.

      Of course, this is exactly what I predicted would happen, liberals are willing to do anything to avoid placing any blame whatsoever on the "victim". They won't acknowledge that Matthew's actions had anything to do with the bad things that befell him. Typical liberal stupidity.

      1. I have to wonder how obvious his activities were? Was it so loud that nobody could pretend not to hear him or was the person who recorded it snooping?

        The story is tragic but rather short on details.

        In any event the teen is dead now and can't tell his side of events.

        1. He is dead because he was bullied. He’s dead because the school failed at there job. This all could have been avoided if this kid hadn’t filmed matthew.

          1. He's dead because he didn't know how to make good choices. He's dead because he should have waited until he had a more private moment.

          2. Killing himself is a bad choice. Not jerking off in a bathroom. A kid does not have to be held responsible for his actions. He's a kid for christs sakes! A victim of bullying. That's why the victims family us suing the school.

          3. He's a kid. He is a minor. He is not responsible for his actions. He is a victim.

            He was driven to suicide. bullying.

            How would you like it if somebody filmed you jerking off in the restroom?

          4. In your flawed opinion.

            In the real world, it's the kid for taking stupid chances.

            What have you been filmed doing, and why not explain it for us?

        2. You’re making this about matthew when its clearly about the bully filming him.

          No cameras in restrooms. Thats the law

      2. "You miss the point, again, even though you quote it."

        I did not miss your point. I fully understood your point. It should be obvious to you – but apparently isn't – that I was and am rejecting your point. I think your point to be the thought of a depraved mindset. I said so in the the reply to which you responded. That you think I did not understand your point most likely comes from yet another flaw in your mindset: that a person who criticizes what you have said could not have understood what you said. You are so convinced of the truth of your viewpoint that your flawed default assumption is that anyone who disagrees with it simply must be acting out of emotionalism and/or stupidity.

        "He's as much to blame for the situation as the boy who took the video."

        No he is not. The fact that you are incapable of understanding that only indicates that you are a very emotionally stunted individual with some seriously retarded moral development. The victim is never responsible for the actions of the person or person's who made them the victim.

        I won't say that your argument is typical conservative stupidity, because fortunately there are conservatives who do not exhibit the stupidity, nor the moral and emotional retardation, that you do. So let's just chalk it up to a general kind of stupidity on your part, not necessarily associated with your conservatism, but most certainly deeply embedded in your crippled cognition.

  7. This is an example of juvenile bullying gone too far.
    The act of masturbating in a public place does not justify the humiliation what he must have felt.
    There is no excuse for the recording and posting of such act and it is the kid's responsibility not the school's.

    1. No, it doesn't and the person who did it is being punished, but the fact remains, he did something he shouldn't have done in public, something that is socially unacceptable, something that if he had controlled himself, this whole situation couldn't possibly have happened.

      1. The difference is between the 2 actions is that the recorder and poster was clearly doing this to hurt someone else, whilst the kid masturbating intending to hurt anyone else. (BTW I agree he shouldn't been masturbating in a public toilet)

        1. I'm not arguing intent, I'm arguing action. I agree, the kid who recorded him did intend to hurt him, or at the very least embarrass him, but that still doesn't change the fact that had the kid not masturbated in public, there would have been no possible way to embarrass him with the recording. I'm not trying to make an excuse for what either party did, I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation. Some people, however, are desperately trying to make excuses for Matthew's actions, shifting 100% of the blame to the boy who recorded him. There is, as in most similar cases, enough blame to go around.

          1. You seem to have some distorted understanding of blame. Blame is assigned to a person only for the action they take. A person does not share the any blame for the action's taken by another. The only blame that can be assigned to Matthew for the action he took in masturbating in the public bathroom. And had he been caught by a teacher or principle he would have suffered the consequences associated with the blame for that act and that act only. Matthew shares none of the blame that flows from the action of the person who videotaped him and then posted the recording for others to see. Matthew shares none of the blame for the torment directed at him by his fellow students.

            Assigning some of the blame to Matthew for what happened to him is no different than blaming Salman Rushdie, as was done by some at the time, for the Fatwa issued for his having written Satanic Verses. By your reasoning, had be been murdered he would have been partially, if not equally, responsible for his own death for having provoked Islamic fundamentalists with his blasphemous book. Do you not see the problem with this line of reasoning?

            The boy who videotapped Matthew is !00% responsible for that action. He, not Matthew, is culpable for creating the circumstances that resulted in the torment that followed. Those who tormented Matthew are culpable for creating the severe state of fear and emotional and psychological suffering that compelled Matthew to see suicide as the only means to alleviate his suffering and free him from the mental torture and anguish he almost certainly was experiencing.

          2. If a drunk hits a bus full of people are the victims responsible for their injuries? Or is it the drunk that started the chain reaction?

            Matthew set of a chain reaction, had he wanted to avoid that chain reaction it was possible, the choice was his.

          3. No the bully that filmed him sett off a chain reaction.

            Had he been jerking off in the privacy of his own home and the same kid barged in his bathrrom with a camera and started filming him or peeped on him and then uploaded it to the internet, the bully set off the chain reaction.

            Matthew is the victim.

          4. The person who started the chain reaction is the one in the stall doing something that should have been done in private.

            You may not sharia, but not our culture, don't you remember saying this:

            39 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Romney wins Iowa in fi… · 1 reply · +1 points
            You'll pay your jizya tax and you will like it!

            Paid hack troll.

          5. None of what you're posting over and over and over and over is changing the facts, sorry. Doesn't matter if he was a kid. Matthew still made a bad decision to masturbate in a public place. Nothing you say will ever change that.

          6. go away troll I wasn't talking to you.

            You think people should die for masturbating. I don't believe that.

          7. If the trolls go away, I'll still be here, you won't.

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            "I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out."

            Want to play that game?

          8. You explained it yourself.

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

      1. It is true that had Matthew not masturbated at that particular time in that particular bathroom stall there would not have been anything to videotape. But this does not justify assigning blame to Matthew for having been videotaped, nor blaming him to any degree for the posting of the videotape and the tormenting he suffered afterward.

          1. You are a troll.

            Why Do you THINK he is a victim?

            For the reasons that I have laid out. For the obvious reasons!

          2. Coming from the paid hack sent to drive folks away from a temple/site you're not credible when you make any claims or conclusions.

            The reasoning is obvious that you're just not up to this.

          3. You are a troll.

            Why Do you THINK he is a victim?

            For the reasons that I have laid out. For the obvious reasons!

          4. You have a flawed position and ignore facts to stay with it.

            You're a troll because you admit to taking money to drive people away.

            For the reasons I just laid out, you are a troll and have a flawed position.

          5. TMI, I don't want to hear about the things you do in restrooms that make you want to keep cameras out.

            Even George Michaels learned that the hard way, some things need to be kept at home.

          6. Cameras are not allowed in restrooms. Why doesn’t matthews bully take responsibility for that

  8. How is he to blame for to something completely natural in a private bathroom? The school is to blame without a doubt! It is there JOB to make sure that the students are safe.

      1. He still took video of him and put it online. That's the bullying. That's the harassment. He did not have his permission to do that.

          1. He didn't put that video up online. His bully did.

            He killed himself, but that doesn't mean he wasn't driven to it by bullying.

          2. I know who the victim is. Matthew is. I know who the perpetrator is, the punk that filmed him and put it online. I know who is to blame. The school. That's why the school is getting sued

          3. You're stupid and a troll. He was bullied to death.

            He did not deserve to die for masturbating no matter what the church is spewing these days.

          4. I'm sure the bully that filmed him is feeling shame and guilt for what he did to matthew. I'm sure he feels shame.

            Don't you think he should be responsible for HIS actions?

          5. He didn't, but then the risk is that people who realized what was going on would mock him for it.

            That didn't work out so well.

      2. The parents are suing the school and they have every right. They are legally entitled to prosecute the school all they want.

        1. You Iranian trolls, you don't understand our court system. A civil lawsuit isn't persecuting anyone. It's a place to lay out a case that there was damages done. Do you want to schools to pull out all the bathrooms?

          1. I'm not gonna point out where you messed up this time like I usually do.

            I'm just gonna let sit there for everyone to see

          2. I always have evidence and facts and contribute value to these forums.

            I'm not a stupid troll like you !

          3. If you have them. why not use it to draw your conclusions?

            Like the fact the kid did what he did voluntarily?
            Like the fact that it was a public restroom?
            Like the fact he was doing something other folks couldn't pretend to ignore?

            Facts, they are not your friend.

          1. They\re guaranteed privacy in restrooms.

            Even in your home you are suspect to violations of privacy.

            What if you live with roommates and somebody barges in and takes a picture and puts it online?

          2. Nope, not in public restrooms. If some smaller restrooms have a lock on the door perhaps, but this was large enough for people to come and go evidently.

          3. He had a 'sense of' privacy, but as with all public restrooms there were other people in the room and he didn't respect their sense of decency.

          4. Per my link, it's the same state and the same state laws apply. At the last time you checked.

            And what is reasonable? To make noises loud enough everyone in the room can hear and realize what's happening and then pretend you're in a private setting?

            Is that like a flasher running naked and then if photographed screaming about expectation of privacy?

            The story is about responsibility, this teen showed poor judgement and the entire story shows it wasn't a one time issue for him, his conclusion showed the same thing.

          5. Last I heard you were trying to, and I reminded you about the story, you know the actual issue the site presented.

            Last I read in the story it wasn't a fixed hidden camera used on the teen, and there is no claim that the teen didn't know they were aware. So, he was being lewd. Possibly he was being lewd intentionally, he was responsible for his actions and was aware that society rejected his lewd actions.

          6. At 14 it's common that adolescent men have the beginnings of the character they need to be men, if they ever do.

            Accepting responsibility for their actions is part of that.
            Self control is part of that.

            You may be replacing patriot since he's taking a vacation from this site, but you're just as lame.

          7. Try reading it again.

            Just because you don't want to admit this story isn't geared toward prurient interests doesn't mean my comment was anything other than what it clearly meant.

          8. Read my comment then try to reply to it.

            "At 14 it's common that adolescent men have the beginnings of the character they need to be men, if they ever do.

            Accepting responsibility for their actions is part of that.
            Self control is part of that."

          9. You liberals define words differently.

            What marks a man? A real man, not just a bag of skin that survived his mother's abortion attempts.

            A real man has character traits. I listed two, two that Matthew had not bothered developing, and I listed those two on purpose since those two were relevant to the story.

            If you want to discuss markings in a prurient manner, this isn't the site for you.

          10. Oh, you don't get it. I said what I meant, and I meant to use markings.

            You can say what you want, but you don't get to decide what I want to say.

            And markings means any number of things, usually identifying signals, or markers.

            In the case of characters they are what I laid out in my comment.

            Deal with it.

          11. I'm nipping this in the bud. I banned you once, then I gave you another chance. Clearly, that was the wrong thing to do because you're just an asshole. Therefore, you and your entire Roger hating crew can take a permanent hike. Goodbye. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Go bother Roger elsewhere.

  9. Couldn't he have done that in a stall, and shut the door? If he needed room, he could have used the handicapped one.

    1. I would assume that he did, I'm sure he didn't plan on putting on a public display or being filmed, but even in a stall, it isn't that private, people can look over or under if they really want to. The only way to have real privacy is not to do it at all in a public restroom.

  10. I've read the comments on this thread which proved to be quite entertaining. I think I may be able to contribute to this discussion. I am brand new here but I'll have a go.

    Correlation does not mean causation. Is Matthew's initial action linked, or correlated, to him being video taped and ultimately persecuted by his peers? Of course, his actions preceded the entire circumstance and provided opportunity for a myriad of different outcomes. However did his actions demand that he would be persecuted necessarily? Was he entirely culpable for his humiliation? The answer is obviously no to both. Here's why this is true: I suspect Matthew assumed he would not be discovered. Matthew probably suspected it would be bad for him if he were caught, however he weighed that against the likelihood of being caught and decided one of two things: either he wouldn't be caught or he decided that if he did get caught he would be able to handle all foreseeable consequences. I suspect the latter is not the case and rather the former is most likely. However I don't absolve him of all responsibility. He is responsible (or to blame) for masturbating in a public restroom, sure enough. If discovered he deserves any appropriate action for that, and only that, offense by a person, persons, or institution that is responsible for dealing with this misconduct professionally, e.g. the principal, the school administration, the police, et cetera. He did not deserve the embarrassment and abuse that he received from the students, namely the student who decided to video tape him and make his misconduct public. He is responsible for his initial action and nothing more. Matthew publicly masturbating is not causally related to his subsequent harassment and suicide. To think otherwise is to completely misunderstand culpability in any legal and ethical sense. The person who taped the event and made it public is most responsible for Matthew's death. A case could be made that this person recklessly caused Matthew's death. On the video taping and dissemination however this person acted "purposely," which is generally considered the highest degree of culpable mental states. Matthew acted either "recklessly" or "negligently" depending on his actual mental state at the time. I would seriously doubt Matthew had the full knowledge and maturity to realize the potential backlash, nor do I believe he thought he would be caught in general.

    Thank you for your comments no matter how unsociable they may be.

    1. Clearly his actions were causitive to what came afterwards, had he never partaken in those actions, what followed could not conceivably have happened. That doesn't mean he is responsible for the actions of others, clearly he is only personally responsible for his own actions, but he had the control to make a good decision in the first place and he didn't. He also had the control to make a good decision in the aftermath and he didn't. No one is forgiving the person who filmed him, but we can't only assign blame to that individual, clearly everyone was responsible for their own part in this event.

      1. I agree with almost everything in your response except of course your use of causality for reasons previously mentioned. In general I believe causality would mean that Matthew participated directly in his own video taping and harassment. This is simply not the case. As far as each party being responsible for their own role, yes absolutely. Perhaps our only difference lies in the definition or concept of causality.

        You do however bring to the forefront Matthew's responsibility for his suicide which I may have understated. The suicide is the most horrid event in this story. I could only try to understand Matthew's mental state prior to taking his own life. As aforementioned I would hold the boy who taped him recklessly responsible by his purposeful actions, not solely responsible, but responsible nonetheless. However I did not precisely emphasize that Matthew could have acted differently regardless of his humiliation. This is where I find Matthew's responsibility in his death. Whether or not Matthew had an unrelated disposition that could have exacerbated his suicidal tendency is unknown. However I think we both can acknowledge that Matthew suffered a seriously traumatic event beyond his expectations of the potential consequences.

        1. You can be the cause of something bad that happens to you without being directly involved in the bad thing that happens to you, sorry. His action still sparked the event. Had he not taken that action, the event couldn't possibly have happened. And while I think he suffered a traumatic event, I don't think it should have been beyond his expectations of the potential consequences at all. Performing a private act in a public place, there is *ALWAYS* the risk of public exposure. Always.

          1. I think this devil may merely lie in the details. I am happy to disagree on this point without beating the veritable dead horse, with your indulgence.

            The only meaningful argument I would add consists of his actual awareness to the consequences. We have no way of knowing his actual thoughts on this matter. I know he was aware that masturbating in public is wrong and illegal. I would agree he understood this well although he was, in the most sincere term, only a child. Could have known the true consequences of masturbating in public in their totality? I would venture to guess this was not that well thought out. I have no way of knowing of course. I am not a psychologist however I know that there are different stages of human cognition. The fact that he was 14 allows us to know that his reasoning ability was not as strong nor as developed as an adult. Also masturbating in a public space is not normal in its own right. So what we truly have here is an adolescent that does not have a fully developed reasoning ability and an apparent lack of a well-functioning mind on an emotional level.

            I have no idea what makes a 14 year old boy do what he did. Yes of course this would have never happen if he didn't initiate things. Also this is why the boy who taped him shouldn't be charged as an adult would be. But Matthew's actions are even weirder and therefore harder to understand. Matthew being fully responsible, I hardly think so.

            And of course I do accept your apology. j/k 🙂

          2. Why should a 14 year old boy be held responsible for his actions?

            Im sure you did stupid things when YOU were 14.

          3. If he's man enough to do things, he's man enough to accept responsibility for them.

            And that's why parents are important as children face more in life.

    1. Yes, from freaks and people that appear to be perverts.

      I'm surprised to see you come crawling back to this site. The last time you were here you said you wouldn't be coming back. What happened are you as two faced as the rest of the trolls? (rhetorical question)

      If you look at the title, it's about what happened to responsibility.
      Does anyone accept responsibility for their bad conduct, do parents accept responsibility for not being there when their children mess up?

      Only some dork wads would make it out to be something pornographic.

      1. Just proving once again you're a pathological liar:

        "Well, one of you did and he's still posting at the bitchspot to push your same agenda even after you were all banned". See ya.

      2. "….do parents accept responsibility for not being there when their children mess up?"

        So you think the parents should have been in the bathroom stall when this kid messed up?

          1. Good point Roger, the parents should have paid more attention to his masturbation habits. Erp, derp.

          2. A lack of self control is a lack of self control. It would have manifested itself in more than just hairy palms.

            And his being upset to the point of suicide, if they didn't notice changes they weren't paying enough attention.

            Erp, derp. Why are you so deliberately obtuse?

          3. Sure you don't, you and SBJ seem awfully caring bout that sort of activity for some strange reason. Do you want to come out of some sort of closet perhaps?

          4. Hahaha…..you have been commenting about a 14 year old masturbating for 14 weeks, I have been commenting about it for 1 day. Seems you are well out of the closet already.

          5. Hahahaha, I realize you're posting from a funded work terminal.

            But I've been posting about the lack of responsibility and self control in that 14 year old.

            The subtle difference of course is lost on you.

          6. Not really, not to a person who was raised with the concept of being responsible for my own actions.

            To a posse troll sitting at a funded work terminal with a quota it might seem strange.

          7. Not like Matthew.

            Not like you evidently.

            13 minutes ago @ Bitch Spot – What Ever Happened to … · 4 replies · 0 points
            I always use the correct position.

          8. Honestly, I\’m seriously thinking that I need another round of bannings here, actually permanent this time. The first time around, I knocked the most obvious trolls out for a couple of weeks, then reversed it, hoping people would grow up and learn their lessons. I\’m seeing now that some people will never mature, hence they might just need to go away permanently.

          9. I've tried to temper my postings knowing they watch and pounce. But this story about responsibility seemed so 'core' to the failings of our society I dived in.

            Some, it's not about our issues or problems but just the alinsky tact is to destroy what we have, without realizing they have nothing to replace it with.

          10. You just happen to use all their talking points and know all their positions on sharia. Yeppers, don't forget how upset you got over the student virus.

          11. How many times do I have to quote your earlier comments?

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

          12. No, you always post one-liners just making unsupported assertions and pretending that you have the slightest clue what you\’re talking about. You don\’t. You haven\’t even shown the capacity to think about your beliefs rationally. You ignore what everyone else says to repost the same old tired bullshit over and over again.

            And you think you\’re correct? Seriously?

          13. That's because you guys are trolls and trolls are treated accordingly.

            Matthew had restraint. He was responsible enough to excuse himself to the restroom. He could have jerked off in class.

            Show me the law where it says jerking off in a private place is illegal.

          14. So the kid whacking off in a public restroom had restraint? Seriously? A public restroom is, by definition, NOT A PRIVATE PLACE!

          15. By his standards it's restraint.

            He doesn't understand our culture or societal norms obviously. It's the culture that holds that 'if a woman doesn't wrap up in a burka she deserves to be raped and then the rapists get to stone her because she asked for it' thinking.

          16. I have privacy in public restrooms. Starbucks for example. Bathrooms demand a sense of privacy.

            My argument is this, and it is clear, you guys are trolls so I'm wasting my breath.

            Because cameras are not allowed in restrooms, this bully that filmed matthew is in violation of the law. If the kid that filmed matthew had never filmed him all of this would have never happened.

            Cameras are not allowed in restrooms so if matthews bully had never filmed matthew he would have never killed himself.

            If matthew was jerking off in a stall and there were no cameras, how would anybody know what he was doing?

          17. You mean that law you can't seem to find? That law? If Matthew had never masturbated in a public place, he never could have been filmed and he never could have been "bullied". It all comes down to a poor decision on Matthew's part. You're just refusing to acknowledge that. But by all means, post another 40 identical comments telling us how right you are.

          18. Coming from you that is supposed to mean something? Just because you're an expert at being a paid troll, and just because your handlers tell you you're stupid doesn't mean everyone else here is a stupid troll as well.

          1. That's not what you've said before.

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

          2. Nowhere in that link does it say cameras are allowed in restrooms.

            Cameras are not allowed in restrooms.

          3. No, or you could do so again. Making claims that aren't backed up only makes sure that while your credibility is no existent, that it stays that way.

          4. You missed the fact this was a public restroom and what someone does effects everyone else in the room, particularly if the fan isn't working right.

          5. It doesn't matter. Restrooms demand a sense of privacy that is why you wont find cameras in them.

          6. Not if more than one person at a time is allowed in.

            This was a public restroom and everyone else in the room didn't need to hear what was going on.

          7. What latest? I've had a camera on my cell phones, even before there were any such things as smartphones, for well over a decade. The first camera phones came out in 2000. That's almost 15 years now! Cell phones have had cameras longer than this Matthew kid was alive!

          8. No, you prove that you are a lonely pathetic 51 year old creepy old man with no life and no respect for anything that isn't white christian.

          9. Come on, level with us here….

            Why are you so hard at work trying to post so many comments. Do you need extra money for a vet bill, is the little wife sick or something?

          10. Says who? This will be at least the fifth or sixth time I've asked this and the fifth or sixth time that you've had no answer, you've just restated it as a fact.

          11. Do you work? Do you ever go to restaurants or clubs? Do you EVER see security cameras in the restrooms?

          12. Sure you do, and it's according to your agenda.

            6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
            I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

    2. It\’s all quantity, not quality. You\’ve got one guy who just keeps repeating the same damn thing over and over again without a shred of evidence of intelligent content. You\’ve got trolls, like yourself. That\’s the majority of the attention. It\’s too bad because having an intelligent discussion on controversial stories is actually a good thing.

      1. I just don't see why this is a controversial story.

        Not really, it's a sad one, a tragic one. It's a commentary on the state of our collective society on accepting responsibility. But controversial? That surprised me.

        1. You dont understand the story.

          This is just another example of school bullying. Cephus’ position is wrong. That bully needs to take responsibility for his actions.

          What you do in the bathroom is your business. Cameras are not allowed in restrooms. Had that bully showed restraint, matthew would still be alive. His parents should have taught him the golden rule .

          What you do in the bathroom is YOUR BUSINESS

          1. Do unto others. Don't peer over a stall and film some kid in the restroom.

            You would like that done to you?

          2. Whether or not I'd like it to happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen, therefore doing inappropriate things in a public restroom is not suggested. You don't seem to understand what a public restroom is.

          3. IT makes no difference if it was a public restroom. He was 14. He doesn't need to show restraint or responsibility. ALL restrooms demand a sense of privacy.

            You don't film people without their consent. You don't put it online without their consent.

  11. Cephus — Are you awake here? Roger has posted 80+ comments in under 35 minutes…are you beginning to see a pattern at all? There's a reason your site has just about bit the big one — a site that's actually an intelligent one. But nobody I know is interested in having the Troll-In-Chief go nutso over and over and over again. Sorry, bud, but if you've lost 'business' here, he's the reason, the only reason for that.

    1. What is it to you?

      You're just an ill mannered control freak that can't stand anyone not paying you attention.

      Try better hygiene and develop a personality if that's what you want.

      1. You came here, knowing Cephus has said you're not welcome and has banned your before. And you did it to show you could throw your considerable weight around and be as unpleasant as possible. And your last comment proves it.

        You wouldn't be here if I meant nothing to the posse. See you, or should I say 'smell you' later. There are body washes that might help with that you know…

      2. Do you realize that Patriot treats his bride (a possible goat) better than your ex husbands treated you in all likelihood? What does that say about your femininity?

        Do you drag your knuckles when you walk or something? I figured you looked like Helen Thomas on a bad day from your attitude, but now I bet you would be glad to be that attractive.

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