Faith is a Massive Circular Cluster-Fuck

Enduring Clusterfuck
That pretty much describes faith.

Faith is an interesting phenomenon, one that I think is clear that most theists use as an excuse, not as a reason, for believing what they believe.  It’s bad enough when they have no idea what faith actually is, it’s worse when they know full well that it’s just an excuse and they’re going to milk it for all it’s worth.

I decided to try an experiment, utilizing two theists who are notorious for this kind of thing, I decided to completely deconstruct faith.  What do they mean by faith, how to they justify faith, what kind of tests do they put on faith, etc.  I found that, to be honest, faith is an excuse that they use to rationalize beliefs which they have no good reason to hold.

One theist has got the biggest circular disaster I’ve ever seen.  To him, faith is all about trust.  Okay, I can go with that, but trust is not something that is simply given, it must be earned.  What has God done to earn any trust, especially given that you can’t prove God even exists.  Oh, but the trust has been earned, you just have to have faith!

Wait a minute.  You have to have faith that God is real to get to trust God, but in order to have that trust, you have to have faith that God is real?  Seriously? And these theists wonder why rational people think they’re stupid?

Red_Spectrum
Is there anyone who couldn’t understand this?

The other theist has declared that he cannot define what he means by faith unless I also have faith.  After all, he says, you couldn’t describe the color red to a person who had been blind since birth.

Sure I can.  Red is the hue of the long-wave end of the visible spectrum, evoked in the human observer by radiant energy with wavelengths of approximately 630 to 750 nanometers.  You might not be able to see it, you might not be able to personally experience it but you can sure understand what it means.

The fact that they cannot define faith in terms that can be understood by people lacking faith is just proof that the word is meaningless.  It’s a wiggle word, it means only as much as they want it to mean at this exact moment and no more.  So I tried to push it.

Okay then, since they cannot actually define what faith is or how it operates, I’m going to declare my faith in the Blue Meanies.  Hell, might as well make ’em look stuff up, right?  So now that I’ve declared my faith, that must make the Blue Meanies just as reasonable and rational as God, right?  After all, I have all of the characteristics.  I have faith in something I cannot demonstrate is real, I can apply trust that I cannot validate to prove to myself that my faith is not misplaced. I am completely unable to explain to anyone else, who do not already believe in the Blue Meanies, why they should believe in the Blue Meanies.

Seems I have this faith thing down pat.

The theists don’t.  They both stopped talking to me.  Go figure.

13 thoughts on “Faith is a Massive Circular Cluster-Fuck

  1. Great post. It seems that many theists that I come into contact with (yes I know that is subjective and not a great representation of all theists) want to have things both ways. They want to be able to appeal to faith, but also want to be say there is evidence for their god. Those two things are just not compatible. It becomes further complicated (and absurd) when, as you point out, they insist that faith is needed in order to understand or "see" the evidence. That is an incoherent notion.
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  2. Not only are they indulging in blatant circular reasoning, they very much want to completely disconnect any chance of reason, questioning or skepticism from an explanation of faith. Once that is done, they can get away with ANY lame BS explanation they care to lay out … and if you have faith enough, you'll believe it!

    I might say that's as simple as Pi … but even an irrational number such as 3.1415926535897… is RATIONAL compared to their noise.

  3. Well, as a theist, I cannot explain life without a higher power. And the one that is best described to fit what I see in the world is the God of the Jewish Bible and the Christian New Testament. Christianity is based on reason, not feelings at all.

  4. "One theist has got the biggest circular disaster I’ve ever seen. To him, faith is all about trust. Okay, I can go with that, but trust is not something that is simply given, it must be earned. What has God done to earn any trust, especially given that you can’t prove God even exists. Oh, but the trust has been earned, you just have to have faith!"

    So if I can find an atheist – any atheist – who engages in circular reasoning, I can blog about how atheists have no idea what they're talking about? Is this the way atheists think? Really? because I have to say, this really does lower the bar on serious criticism.
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  5. Wow. I'm just shocked by the horrid argumentation in this post, but not surprised given the name of this website's URL.
    I have several points to make:

    1) Simply because some theists can't explain why they hold their beliefs doesn't disprove them or make them untrue.

    2) You have written pejoratively about the theist's belief, and yet your description of these beliefs are not at all accurate nor representative of all theists.
    A more thorough and honest approach would have been to do a little more research as to why so many Christians, for instance, believe in what they do before getting on your high horse and claiming that you've solved the psychology.

    3) Their faith is not reasonable? As I said, perhaps more research on your part would be in order. I speak for Christianity when I say that there are many reasonable arguments made by Christian theists that warrant a reasonable belief in God and many have come to God because they found these arguments quite compelling. Some examples include the cosmological argument, the teleological argument, the moral argument and the ontological argument. There is also plenty of historical and archeological evidence available which strengthens the case for the reliability of the Bible, as well as strengthens the evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and much more.

    On your own beliefs, would you not admit to having faith in science? And furthermore, do you really think science explains it all, or even has the ability to? Do you really think you don't rely on faith every single day?

    You think you're so intelligent and logical, so vastly superior to everyone else and yet you cannot turn a single hair on your own head white or make your own heart beat. Don't you realize you are really powerless?

    You sir, are dishonest. Be responsible. I advise you look at the wickedness inside your own heart before judging others.

    Good Day.

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