If you think you can stomach it, here’s a 2-hour “debate” between AronRa and Randy Nelson, moderated by DPR Jones of Magic Sandwich fame. Trust me, this needs moderation, not so much because of AronRa, although as you’ll see below, I think he needs a gag sometimes, but because, as it turns out, from the utter and complete idiocy of Nelson and his presuppositionalist crap.
Of course, I’ve gone on record a couple of times about how idiotic I think presuppositionalism is, it’s the debate tactic of 6-year olds. “I’m right because I’m right, that makes me right.” About the most intelligent these pinheads can say is “uh-huh!”
And this debate demonstrates that quite nicely.
So hold on to your hats, get a bucket of popcorn and get ready to scream at the screen as apologist nonsense washes over you.
You’d think these people would eventually figure out how asinine what they’re spewing actually is, but apparently not yet…
A couple of points, scribbled down while listening:
- Aron, in the first half especially… shut up. Seriously. Okay, I understand why you’re doing it but it’s not helping. People, like Aron and I, who have debated these idiots time and time and time again, understand their claims better than they do. Clearly, Aron proved he knew the Bible a lot better than the supposed Christian too. I’d be trying to avoid the long, drawn out nonsense too, but honestly, you have to let these idiots make fools of themselves. You can’t just show how foolish they are and leave them sitting there silent.
- And no, you don’t need to clarify anything. Now granted, I’m not going to lay the whole blame on Aron for this one because, when asking Randy a question, Randy almost always dodged the question and asked another question in return.
- On disproving evolution, Aron eventually got around to the right answer, but it took a while. There are plenty of things that *COULD* happen that would disprove evolution, but none of those things happen to be true. Saying that up front could have saved a ton of time. Besides, you knew what Randy was trying to get you to admit and you played, for at least a moment, into his hands. We have a wealth of evidence for evolution, even if he doesn’t know what evolution is, and while there are plenty of things that could falsify it, it would take something altogether astounding to get science to throw it away entirely. It’s like saying that we could falsify gravity. We could. It would just be absurdly difficult given the weight of evidence supporting it.
- Randy Nelson is a fucking idiot. ’nuff said. No, actually it isn’t enough, this guy is blatantly dishonest, ignorant on a level that is hard to comprehend and delusional beyond any ability to fathom. AronRa hit him straight between the eyes with a sledgehammer on a regular basis and he never got it through his head. That’s because, no matter how much he screams about it, he’s not interested in the truth. He’s a fanatic. He’s clinging so hard to one particular religious belief that he can’t come up for air long enough to realize how ridiculous he is. Every time he got backed into a corner, where it looked like he’d have to admit that he was wrong, he’d defiantly declare that he was right so it didn’t matter.
- I won’t criticize DPR in the least, he lasted a lot longer as semi-impartial moderator than I would have. I would have told Randy he was a moron about 10 minutes in. That said though, I don’t know that moderation really works under these conditions, especially when the moderator has no real power. All you can do is yell at people and I’m sure that gets frustrating if they choose not to listen to you. I’d never be a moderator unless I had a mute button for all of the participants. You’re going to shut up when I tell you to, for as long as I tell you to. It’s the only way to really guarantee equality and fairness.
I really think that debates like this are ultimately pointless. You cannot debate fanatics and that’s all presuppositionalists are. They cannot conceive of any possibility that their beliefs are not 100% true and anyone who disagrees is 100% false. They won’t look at evidence because they don’t need evidence. They don’t care about the facts. They don’t worry about honesty. So long as their preconceived notions are defended and embraced with all their strength, nothing else matters. At best, these debates make them look like the wingnut assholes that they are, but anyone who speaks to them for 10 minutes can come to that conclusion on their own. There’s no chance whatsoever that they’re going to change their minds because changing their minds requires actually caring if what they believe is true. They don’t. It must be. They have decreed it so.
That said though, I think Nelson is perhaps the most embarrassing example of a presuppositionalist I have yet run into. I mean… seriously? That’s the best he can do?